Category: Cell Phone Talk
Hi, i've seen a lot of boards as of late talking about making the switch from iOS to android. WIth somewhat interesting timing, I remembered seeing this article making its way around twitter.
Minus the language support issues covered, and some german specific app problems, I really agree with the points made. Many of them also prevented me from switching to android full time. Though admittedly, I don't use a money reader.
http://www.marcozehe.de/2013/04/05/switching-to-android-full-time-an-experiment/
For more detailed information, I would also check out the other blog posts referenced in the above blog post.
http://kirankaja12.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/random-thoughts-on-android-jellybean-and-google-nexus-7-accessibility/
and
http://kirankaja12.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/android-jellybean-accessibility-continued-books-music-movies-and-youtube/
I bring these posts to the boards, because most die hard android advocates will not tell you about the flaws, drawbacks and pointless workarounds required to get the most out of android.
Thanks. Very true.
I almost switched over to Android. Then I stopped, thought about it for a while, and realized that I wouldn't gain a thing by switching because Android is like the iPhone's retarded little step sister when it comes to accessibility right now. This is changing fast and I might pick up an android phone when more improvements are made. But let's just be honest, y'all. Hint: if most blind business executives and leaders aren't switching over because they truly believe the platform just doesn't quite hold up yet in major areas, take a second look before swallowing the Android accessibility propoganda.
Life's just too short.
Personally I am very pleased with Apple and the IDevices. I baught my IPhone 4S this week, and the excitement and happiness it has braught simply because every feature of the phone is accessible is unbelievable. I do not know Android as a whole nearly as well, and I will be looking in to the links that Stormwing posted as well as doing some additional research, just out of curiosity.
:), I do not read articles, I live the android access and quite frankly know what devices to stay away from and what OS of android to go with but again I am a modder who has modded his phone because I wanted too. :), Here is the honest answer :), apple will not let me mod my phone. Okay, back to android access, I had to explain why I am using android over IOS, its not quite polished but ikt is beeing worked on and guess what I and others have in put unlike apples VO. :), Yes, I use my android for work and teach it. So please, stop reading articles, go pick up the latest android device and play with it at a store. Make sure it has the latest talkback installed from the play store. Go listen to that android show as well, J J Medof and Anna use there android phones for work every day. Plus more, its is like IOS accessibility? NO, We can never have a roter like gester system because of a law suit "samsung VS apple" come to mind? So you might not like how android does accessibility but you can not sit here and say it does not work if you try to learn it. Please, do not tell me we do not have this and that, because I honestly do use my phone for work and play. Money reader? lol, darwin walit, google goggles and Yes that money reader marco talked about in his article does work but there needs to be light. That is the ownly money reader that requires some form of light. Sise, here we go again, people telling me it does not work and yet I use it on a dayly bases now even with the samsung touch wiz. :), whent back to what the phone came with because strangely I liked the S3 water sounds. Yes, I will tell you we do not have a office app that can do spell check or a spread sheet program yet. Please, PDF files we have access too. :), Outside of that, the article your posting your board about and the firefox team I have to give props for making a browser that rocks. Well have a wonderful day and thanks for the read that got me to post on this board lol. Kinda funny this board will be out dated in about 4 months seeings how fast talkback updates but this board's poster would know that if she had a android device.
Oh, if any one once to know more about android's access or has a android device and needs help come find me I am all ways willing to help or teach. If I do not know what is going on then I will find out or just flat out be honest about not knowing what to do with set android device. "sise", so now here goes post on and plese tell me what I do not know about android lol. NO, sense we are on the subject of beeing honest, android's access is not as polished as apple's but google just recently got off there asses and now is pushing full steem ahead. Go read the eyes free mailing list and you will see what I am talking about, well good day to all and I guess here goes the onslot of people teling me I am full of hourse shit.
Absolutely true that Android is the operating system of choice for people who truly mod / root / low-manage devices. If you're wanting to do that to a device, and also I would say, if you are looking to learn about the anatomy of mobile architectures from the inside out, from a technical hw/sw standpoint, learn some about boot loaders, ROMs and component relationships, I would say Android is the modern OS solution to learn about this on. Used to be yu could use Symbian as an open-source alternative or Windows Mobile with a really nice development platform to learn all of that stuff on, but now Android pretty well manages both. But as a blind person, that is what Android is for.
My sighted daughter and friends do fine with a couple of older HTC devices running Android OS flavors but to them modding a phone would mean getting a new one, and rooting it would probably mean burying it in the ground. They're the generation who uses it, without knowing how any of it works, while the rest of us make it.
Also, since you frequently get a phone with a contract, still this is unfortunate though T-Mobile and others are changing this, your choices are limited to a series of phones, many of which have skins that are not accessible or eliminate the accessibility interfaces altogether.
There is how I see the situation for us who need access, at least. The problem with accessibility components is if they're not working and need to be installed, you who need them often can't install them unless you are someone who knows how to root manage a device and afterwards properly care for a rooted device. Hence one very good reason I never rooted and re-flashed my teenage daughter's phone. The properly manage a rooted device part.
lol, first off man, i'm a guy.
Secondly many of my problems with android still exist today.
Stop being defensive and make a valid argument... SMH
I'm not saying its bad, just saying its not perfect, and has some real flaws that people should consider, like not being able to easily and accurately edit the text you type, the way the audio system works, the lack of standardization with UI elements.
You're fanboying to such an extent that you can't even admit where the flaws are, or where things need work.
And sure, some of these problems will be fixed in a few months, for those with modern phones, but remember, even high end handsets that shipped with 4.0 or 4.1 are not garinteed to get 4.2 or 5.0.
Many handsets are completely and utterly shafted, unless you want to root, so throwing out a half formed thought really doesn't leave you with anything credible to say, in this context.
Ok, maybe not anything, but, it colors every word with such complete and utter bias I can't take much you say seriously.
The other thing is you have to be careful which Android device you buy. With an iPhone, it is an iPhone and all updates work as expected.
Android works well, as pointed out, for the user who is able, and has the ability to fool around, and time. For most people, having to tinker with their devices is frustrating, and this holds especially for a blind person, that may or may not have sighted help with it, and can’t find a resource to fix it.
I personally have all the abilities, but prefer Apple, due to simplicity, and the help factor if I should need it.
The ability to make a phone call, or go to a website, read a manual, was my deciding pull to iPhone.
I really love Android devices, but don’t have the patients to sit and fiddle all the time.
When Android comes as accessible as Apple, I’ll be on board. You keep saying things are going to change in 4 months or whatever, and I’ve seen that claim 6 months ago. Sure things have changed, but Apple is now.
As a consumer I want now, not 4 months from now. Must I wait 4 months to be able to edit my text message accurately?
This is a tough one, because up until a few weeks ago, I was a huge supporter of Android. But its flaws were frustrating me; my phone was at a standstill. Sure, it met my basic needs; I could perform the usual tasks with ease. But it wasn't going to get Jellybean unless I rooted, and since it was my only phone and the steps for unlocking the bootloader and rooting looked beyond tedious, I chose to switch to the iPhone.
There are things about Android that I miss... mainly the freedom to do what I want with my phone (choice of TTS and tethering to name a few). But I have to admit that, when I got the iPhone, I was unbelievably excited at the fact that it's accessible right out of the box. Everything that I wanted to do, I could do, and there seem to be many more accessible apps.
I do still like Android, and maybe I'll go back to it when some major accessibility improvements are made. But I have to say that, right now, I'm enjoying the iPhone experience. I don't agree with everything written in that article, and I don't feel he took the time to give Android a fair chance. But he does make some valid points that really need to be addressed.
To poster 4-5, why would I try out a product without doing some research first? I'm sorry, but unless there is some free trial of an Android, I'm not going to spend my money on something without having some knowledge about it first, and what it is I am getting myself involved with.
The thing you have to respect about this article, is this is not some low level user who had problems with Android. this is a fairly technically sound user who as I understand it, has an extremely extensive background in programming, and more importantly in the mobile world. There are days where I say I'll switch to android and then I read more and more from folks who need to know how to get this basic feature to work, and that basic command to actually do something, and for now I just choose to stay put and have a productive work flow!
As for tethering while not quite the same, the personal hot spot feature works great and I've used it extensively!
I'm by no means an apple fanatic. I don't own all things apple, and I often laugh at people who are so blindly loyal to I devices that they can't even consider alternatives. However, I've had an iPhone 4 for a year and a half and I like it. No, it's not terribly customizable, but it does everything I need it to and more. It has very few bugs, and out-of-the-box accessibility, as has already been stated, is extremely convenient. Will I switch in future if something better becomes available? Absolutely. But for now, I'm happy enough with what I've got. Generally, when the Apple versus Android arguments start, I tend to simply say: "Use what works".
In jelly bean :), you can edit text, when people ask me what device to by I do not say HTC or older motorola devices. Nor do I push them to ICS unless they want a corty keyboard phone which so far equals the droid 4. As for work flow, my s3 does just fine with out rooting it, I did it because I got tired of waiting for t-mobile to update the device to 4.2.2. No its not android's fault that devices do not get updated, its the local cariers fault and it rest squarely on them. Hints, open source but what ever works for you all. I will stay over in the android camp and help those who want choice and flexibility. Sorry but the gap for accessible apps on IOS and android is closing rather rappidly. Any way, any one who wants to know more about android and the devices to stay away from come find me. Lastly, its one thing to go online to do research but its a different thing to go to a store and play with a device :), now days that can be done with an android device with out customizing it. yes HTC take's the cake on that statement but go look at android access.net and your going to find that HTC devices need to be fittled with before a person can use it. So many podcast have pointed this out "that android", mike arigo and even some of mine. So again, its not apple VS android its what ever works and for some of us android works. yes even in the work place believe it or not.
I find it funny how so many here point it out to me that android does not work "jelly bean" yet I have a android device. So tell me how does it not work? How do I not look stuff up like pizza hut's number with google now? How I do research VA my phone with out even going to my computer? So the better posting for this board would be "how android does not work for some". :) Then I would have left this board alone. To be fare apple sure does not work for some like me :), hand cuffs wrapped around my device does not make me a happy camper lol.!!!
:), yes I have had 3 IOS devices currently I own a mac so its not a OS from apple, I have a problem with IOS and how apple controls the OS. choice is good :), so in joy your choices, I sure will mine.
Another thing to consider on this:
Whichever platform you buy into, you will end up buying apps there, and so you get invested that way. I don't like fandom either, in fact this was why I had to hold my nose to buy an Apple product. And we used to think the Android users were way too intelligent and critical-thinking to be fanchildren and defensive.
But what people fail to realize, and it doesn't matter what platform we're talking about, is that once you buy a device and start using its apps ecosystem, you very quickly make a financial and workflow investment which makes jumping ship something of a academic exercise rather than a productive effort. I know sighted people who have Android devices who might consider an Apple for one reason or another, but they, like me, have bought into their apps' ecosystem and platform, and by bought into, I mean financially and workflow wise, and so won't be switching.
And let's face it: except for geeks and the one-percenters, most people don't know the difference between Android and the dvice on which it sits, any more than they know the difference between Windows and the computer on which it sits. So the argument about whose fault it is only holds water in geek exercises and computer science courses, not in the real world where most people live and are not experts. I'm not a stove expert either, but I cook with mine every day.
Once a platform becomes fragmented to the level android has, you do have choice, yes. But choice only exists if you know enough to choose, and understand the entire situation.
Whose fault it is matters little if you missed a meeting back in January because of Apple's Do Not Disturb bug, or when you have to remove and reset the battery to get onto the local LTE network with some Android devices, which of course Android fanchildren will say is the fault of the device but the user doesn't care: they're left picking up the pieces. I know: I work in the software industry, and most my family and friends work nowhere near it. I see the difference on a daily basis. Add blind and accessibility into the equation, you only complicate things.
I don't think anyone says Android does not work. It, as pointed out works for some people. These are the people, as I pointed out, who don't mind fooling around.
If you are sighted this is a moot argument, but for a blind person that has no sighted help that is not technically challenged, Android is difficult, and for many "does not work.'"
They simply can not get the support.
I have many sighted friend and family that use Android, and in that case they are shopping features, price, and looks, but for a blind person that is not technically minded I suggest the Apple product every time, because it "works."
Yes, you buy in to the system you start with, but people usually don't mind that. They get use to a product line, and that product line serves them well, they will remain.
I love my galaxy s2, everything my iphone did is possible through droid, and it gets better every few months, I'm happy with droid and don't have a reason to go back to iphone
one question for starflie:
How exactly can one go to the store and play around with an android device when they don't work accessibly out of the box. You need to put a screen reader on one of those, do I understand correctly?
Apple, however, works right out of the box. and that beats everything else for me, personally, by far. I have choice because I'm not looking for anything that apple Ios doesnt' offer. there are thousands of apps to choose from, and what more should I want. Wouldn't wnat ot customize and modify my phone anyway, not interested in the tedious rooting process, so yea. I guess it's up to the user. Although you can't argue that IDevices are much more practical for the everyday user.
It is technically even difficult to go to the store and play with an iPhone. Many stores don't have the phones setup correctly, so the turn on steps work. If the rep isn't trained to do it, you have to bring your laptop or a friend and get permission to change the display model.
I have noticed one Verizon I go to was set up.
Talkback comes with the device now in jelly bean and you can play with a android tablit or phone like a S3 or galaxy tab two with out changing anything on it. If its samsung, LG or a nexis device and its 4.0 or above its got talkback installed. Just have the rep do these steps depending on OS number: tap apps, settings, accessibility, talkback and check on. A dialog will come up in jelly bean asking if you except talkback's gsters and tap yes. ICS "repete the same steps but a person needs to have the rep back out of talkback, stay in settings and tap explore by touch. When they tap explore by touch tap okay. Your set and when your done at a store you can turn it off. Keep in mind only in ICS not "jelly bean" your going to need the eyes-free keyboard to type with on ICS. Jelly bean nothing is needed but talkback and if your like me your choice of a keyboard.
And how does a consumer like myself who just wants a new cellphone know all this?
I step in to my cellular store, and start looking around, and see a pretty red phone, and it feels good, and looks all new and shiny. I'm not even sure if it is Android, Windows, IOS, or what, I just like the phone.
Even if I've done some research, no place I know of will explain all these steps you just laid out, so what now?
The sales person might know how to get the phone speaking, but after that they aren't trained either to know all you just laid out.
Get an iPhone speaking, it starts to tell you, double tap to open, and such instructions.
It is said, but I've even been in the Apple store and the phones and such are not ready. The dirrents is, that if I ask, the sales person can turn it on, and in many cases even instruct you on how to use it, and before you leave the store with your new shiny phone it will be setup to your liking.
I haven't shopped for phones that much myself yet. But the places I've been to buy my phones usually had them concealed and locked up.
I tried to use Android as a daily device for almost a month. And despite what some would say, it is not, for most people, a device which can be used on a daily basis for a lot of things that iPhones are at this point.
I know I'll get the android fanboys saying I was using it wrong, I don't understand how android works, yadda yadda blah blah. Wrong. I talked regularly to people who used Android along with iPhones, and so knew the tricks, which they passed along to me.
More often than not though, the tricks involved workarounds. Downloading alternative apps, rooting the phone to do this, reconfiguring settings to do that.
When I first turned on my S3, I was pleased to see that Talkback was available to help me through setup. Fine and dandy. My first problem? The Samsung keyboard. I could not touch type on it. There's my first app from the Play Store. Strike one.
Then there's audio. The Android audio system in general is a joke. It is incredibly inefficient to try to navigate using GPS with Android, but be interrupted constantly as notifications come in, as the audio system is incapable of handling notifications and speech at the same time. So whenever something happened on my phone, my speech would get interrupted for anywhere from 10 to 20 seconds. No fix. Strike 2.
Finally, we have the Talkback gestures themselves. Yes, fanboys. Cry about lawsuits. Whatever. Fact is, the Talkback gestures are god awful. The only one I could ever get to work semi-regularly was the notification center. Most of the time I found it easier to erase whole text messages, EMails etc. to correct spelling than to get the talkback gesture to get into a mode where I could edit by word or character to work properly. There's also very little feedback as to where the cursor is when you enter an edit field with text in if you're trying to do a Talkback gesture and remove focus from said field. No fix. Strike 3.
That was about all I needed to tell that Android wasn't going to work for me. There are more things I noticed, like the music library database including any audio regardless of where it was put except certain system folders and no way to exclude things. Having to unlock your device, get a gesture to work and then scroll through a badly arranged list to see your notifications. Want to hear caller ID again because Android can't fade the ringtone? Gotta mute it without hanging up on the caller, then flick around the screen to find the number before they hang up or it goes to voicemail.
No thanks. You can keep it.
I will keep my broken S2 as a test device, but I cannot express how glad I was to have an iPhone 5 back in my hands. It, as Steve Jobs said many times, just works.
and if you don't want your notifications red out while you're phone is sitting on a table locked? Tough shit. I much prefer the iOS "new notification from twitter" style methods.
A hole room doesn't need to here what i'm being texted. and muting your phone is impractical if you've got different ringtones set up for different people, etc.
poster above storm wings post your views some I actually agree with b but storm wing, you can have talkback not speak when your screen is locked, its under the talkback settings. Actually now I think of it, you can change the talkback gesters for the most part and text editing has gotten much better with in a few weeks. Whats wrong with how google play puts your music library either by artist, song or it can shuffle it for you. :) Your missed call can be found and read out via talkback in your notification tray or on the lock screen depending which one you choose meaning lock screens :). I only rooted my S3 because I wanted to see jelly bean 4.2.2 run on my phone, so its true some android devices need some tweeking but the galaxy S3, not II and nexis phones need zero tweeking. So I am not sure where some are gging off saying jelly bean galaxy S3 devices need tweeking to be used. Sense we are on the subject of honesty, netflix needs a good kicking in the butt over there app and talkback via jelly bean 4.1.1. They know about it I and others have called and called I am not stopping until they get the hint, hell they get my money,. Any way, I digress, again if any one nees help with android come find me and keep in mind "stay away from HTC devices."
yes, that's true, but, you're left with the choice of never being notified, or the phone saying to much. My point was that apples approach better protects privacy.
Yes, once the call is missed you can read it. But if you're deciding if you want to answer or not, good luck doing it in a timely fashion.
Also, again, I have seen 3 different people with the S3 have to change keyboards from the default to get a proper touch typing experience on 4.1.1. Different carriers too. Which means you have to deal with shift keys not properly announcing the state, having to double tap every single key to get it entered, and backspace not reading just to enter your information so you can download a new keyboard.
As for the way Android versions from 2.3 to 4.2 handle music, that becomes a problem if you do one or more of the following:
Record audio on your device for some specific purpose,
put audiobooks on your device
or download an app that extracts sound files anywhere.
All of those files are included in your media library, which is just pointless. Even some of Google's own apps. I've stumbled across a few Google Plus sounds while going through shuffle on my Android phones. Not acceptable.
Yes, TalkBack gestures, at least for things like the context menu, notifications etc. Can be changed. But your choices are very limited, and if you make the shape and either turn too soon, too late or don't turn sharply enough, the gesture won't work, no matter if it's up and left, up and right, or the down and whichever direction. And you cannot change the flick up and down to move between words, characters etc. which is one of the ones I had the most trouble with.
agreed, default keyboard on gs3 is a bit useless. I had one, for a while as well.
Gee, the more I read on this board, the more I thank goodness I have an IPhone. Android seems like IOS's retarded older brother with a drug problem. lol
You know seriously, accessible phone before Android and the iPhone worked better for what they did then Android now does.
Sure, you have access to morew applications, but even on my old inV2 I could correct my text, listen to my music and find it easy, answer the phone, you know when it rang without having someone put a dot on the screen, and a host of other things.
For the blind person that just want to wake up in the night, answer a text, listen to some music, or for goodness sake, answer the phone, well Android is just not for us.
I was really surprised to see on another board that one poster could not answer her phone until she had a dot on it. She represents an everyday user in my book, so that was really interesting.
a dot? Um... you can set the GS3 to answer the phone via the home and end via the power keys I bet some did not know that ;). yes, I did get rid of the samsung keyboard. As for editing text not sure for some but I do fine editing text. Again you never answered my question, what can you do with an Iphone other then netflix's app issue in 4.1.1 I can not do. I can edit text, search the internet just as quick as the Iphone and I do not have some eye candy named serie. So instead of insulting something some of you could not use point out to me what your Iphone can do I can not do. Until then my arguement still stands, android has come a long way I doubt some of you bother to ask me a long time android user for help. Did you or tohers try to contact a android list better know as eyes free for help? Well my offer still stands, I will help any one who has an open mind and is willing to learn android. If you come with a closed mind I am done and will not help.
Well, I am always telling people to ask you, so.
Why don't you post on the other board exactly how to set it so she can answer? A step by step?
I was on Eyes-Free, and I talked to people who are well known for using android.
What can my iPhone do? Hmm. Here's a list.
I can, without having to buy a $3 app, read EBooks in PDF and EPub. I can look up any word in those books, I can insert notes, I can pause the books at any point and resume them later. I can tell which page I'm on, jump to a specific page, I can read by word, letter and line at any point within that book. Also, without another app, I can easily switch from using speech to read that book to using braille with my display.
I can do advanced formatting of text in edit fields. I can cut and paste, highlight, bold, italicize.
I can, without having to get another app, or install a widget, easily see all my notifications on my lock screen, and activate any of them with a swipe.
I can, without having to install another keyboard and activate it, easily set my iPhone up from when I first open the box.
I don't have to wonder if my carrier or manufacturer has disabled accessibility on my phone.
I can play word games if I have 5 minutes while waiting for a train.
On a day at home I can load up Papa Sangre and advance a few levels in a brilliantly constructed audio game.
I can plug in my Apogee Jam and record my guitar with professional quality, using very well simulated guitar amps, effects and microphones, changing any part of that chain any time I want.
Those are just some of the things I can do with my iPhone that you'd struggle to do on your android, if you could do at all.
I notice you had nothing to say about a couple of my points either, IE the media library.
hmm, lets see, I can start and stop voice over and/or zoom at any time. I can access every single part of my phone. I can read in a list from start to bottom, for example in tweet list, or any other application with a list.
I can quickly and easily jump from the top of a list to the bottom, I have a much larger library of audio related apps available to me like garage band, amp kit, etc, and most of them support recording interfaces. I can start a conversation on I message using my phone, and pick it up on my mac, and vise versa. I can keep my favorites, web pages and history in sync between my web browser of choice. You can do this with chrome to a degree, but its not as fully functional. I can easily sync notes between my computer and phone.
I get visual voicemail by default. I can stream music with my phone to other speakers in my house, and vise versa. there is no standard to do this on android, that supports every android device currently sold.
I'll think of more as I go on.
Granted there are some apps and features I love about android, but Its not worth it to me, if I can't rely on the device when i'm out and about..
I can make a similar list of things that android people can do that iOS people can't with out jailbreaking, or can't period.
everything I posted I could do with out jailbreaking.
though, if we're going to leave that off the table, then we need to leave anything off the table that requires rooting an android device, changing the default firmware etc.
For me, I am a simple soul. I can order a new iPhone at any time, receive it at my door, open the box, and put all my settings from my old phone, on the new, no sighted help necessary.
Just opening the box, and having the ability to turn on all accessibility features was something to me.
I can download the manual, and that manual tells me exactly what do do for the feature I wish to use. That makes me equal to anyone else ordering a new phone that can see.
Now, this one I know of apps that can do it on Android, and Find My phone is an app, but if I lose it, I can wipe it clean and lock it from my computer or another iPhone. Find it, no problem, just put my Apple ID back in and all my settings come to me.
Wayne's right. Then there is those of us turds tasked with supporting the family members, and supporting them on a Apple device would be tons easier than trying to remember how every flavor of Android works and what widgets one must have or not have. When I buy the wife an iPhone, I will be able to turn on its VoiceOver, take care of things, turn it back off and hand it to her.
I can think of a billion things, but I don't feel like writing them out now. Here's one though. You call siri EyeCandy?
Well. imagine sitting in a car in the passenger's seat, with a driver who doesn't know how to get to your destination. You slip out your IPhone, and without any modifications whatsoever, you ask this EyeCandy for directions from where you are to your destination. Guess what? Within seconds, maps comes up and you get step by step directions to your destination. you don't have to pay for a pricy GPS, you can ask for pedestrian, car or public transit directions, and for once, you can help a sighted driver find his or her way. Try doing that with android out of the box, with zero modifications.
Oh. and can you plug and play with a braille display with any given android device right out of the box? Nope. sorry.
I like my IPhone because it works right out of the box.
I like the fact that I can play a ton of the same games that my sighted peers play, use the same workout apps for instance, us IMessage in the same way that my sighted peers can. With, no, modifications, necessary. That, is, the, key, here. See?
Um... google now can navagate a person to the door with out a dollar 99 app :), I have already done this. As for my media library I have options, samsung's media player "music player" or google play music. As for sinking notes across devices :), episal, free and drops your notes into drop box under its own folder. yes I will post on the android app board how to set up a GS3 device with out root. Seeings how I already rooted my device and brought it back to samsung stock rom because of how my carier treated the rom I was using as 3G and not 4G or HS++. You can turn off talkback from 4.1.1 and up, no infact, sorry gingerbred with the global context menu that can be assigned to a hardware key. Keep in mind this is temporary and when the power key is pressed twice talkback resumes with speach and all. :) So the navagation issue is quite mute lol., if you go look on the android apps board there is a personal traner with no modifications. Sorry if your talking about gingerbred needing modifications, fine, here I will agree, jelly bean nope unless you want a different keyboard. Choice is good, I like that android is around and finely we have a choice, apple or android. I personally take android but those who take apple glad you enjoy it.
Lol. I don't mean to change the subject, but until I read the board title from my BrailleNote, for all this time I thought the title said "a moronist representation of Android access."
lol, you did skip about half the stuff on the lists brandon and I made.
Yes, some know how to root while being blind, others do not, just as some know how to jailbreak a phone, while others do not. But to be fare, we probably should keep the discussion on how devices come stock.
And this is the difference, in the end. android isn't as user friendly out of the box. You've got to go download other apps, to make things work on your device that work out of the gate, on Ios. This being the case though, android provides more flexibility and customization, though at the expense of poor documentation and stability.
I had no problem with the topic title using speech, but I love the mis understanding. I like it. Lol
Yeah and being blind only has to do with it when it comes to access.
My wife who is sighted, a professional in the early childhood field and other places, well, she does not know what rooting a device means even though I have attempted to explain it to her once. Only got frustrated and asked, "So, why would we want to do that?"
Fair question, from someone who generally needs help with things technical, and few of us could do her job. Well maybe you social service types could. And to be fair, when dealing with any of that sort of paperwork, she ends up explaining to me what their words mean.
It's just a bit arrogant and uppity to assume most people, who aren't technical, are gonna be able to do all of these advanced tasks. Admittedly sometimes a bit tough for us as blind people, but any of us software / hardware / I.T. types can manage just fine. But most people cannot. They do other things for a living.
I saw a post on eyes-free a while ago that illustrated the point perfectly, and brings up one of those huge differences that make iOS so much more usable than Android.
Someone asked about labeling buttons. It was pointed out that Talkback doesn't have a way to do this, and that people have been asking for it as, like on iOS, some developers just don't give a damn.
Someone piped up and gave these instructions that involved getting the APK on your PC, disassembling it, modifying some of the files inside, then putting it back together and dumping it back on your phone in order to label blank buttons.
So technically it can be done on both platforms, but really, the iOS way is just a whole lot easier. Anyone can do it, they don't have to be at their computer, they don't have to have the debug tools installed, etc. etc.
There's also trying an android phone in store. Do you really think, unless it's a very slow day and the reps have nothing better to do, they're going to sit around with you and figure out how to enable accessibility? What happens when a manufacturer decides that one of their phones doesn't need any of it even in memory? You can't download stuff from the market unless you're signed in, and in a majority of cases those reps would rather get someone on a new contract than let people line up and possibly walk out while they mess about with a phone for some blind person who probably isn't going to buy it anyway.
This being said, they are usually more than happy to do it for you once you've bought the phone. But just to try one? No way.
And yes, I notice about 3/4 of the lists were completely ignored, and the media library question wasn't even addressed properly. I don't care what music app you use. I care that if I put audiobooks or any other sounds on my phone they'll be included in my shuffle, no matter what app I use.
ded beet does this go look at it. I did say samsung and stock nexis devices not HTC. So there, no in jelly bean even my cheep tablit came with talkback, so again, while I agree with gingerbred not always having talkback installed most jelly bean devices have talkback installed. Also most newer samsung devices work out of the box with out any modifications other then the keyboard. To be fare IOS does not come with touch type out of the box either. I now have to teach IOS so I have seen that blasted keyboard move around the screen if the screen is not locked. To be fare, moble accessibility's keyboard does this because it probly was brought over from the moble speak days. So again, both platform's has there pit falls and strong points, to answer the media question, keep in mind IOS has a dedicated music player, android does not, so each player will work differently. I will refurr back to what someone said back on the eyes free list "S massy" There reason it is hard to make a manual on talkback because with in 3 weeks to a month something of talkback will be fixed or some gesters will be changed because of the community's voice, so if you do not like how talkback does some of its gesters and you can justify it, go file a bug. Explain why, I bet someone will get back to you quickly. I have done this over netflix and sure enough someone from the talkback team emailed me off list and gave me their email to give to netflix's dev team. So in shourt, if you do not like how android is implimenting accessibility go voice your frustrations via the bug tracker see how far you get. Yes, this is not for every one, just like IOS is not for everyone. If IOS was for every one, there would be an Iphone in my apartment. To be fare before I eat crow here, there might be an Iphone because I am teaching IOS and android I need a Iphone to show the differents when making and receiving phone calls, managing contacts and texting.
Do the stores know this, Starfly? Would a teacher like my wife, for whom jellybean and gingerbread means food, be able to tell the difference? This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. It's all well and good for software people to debate this stuff, but to average people who work in other fields, it sounds like mumbo jumbo like the people in the middle ages arguing over how many angels could stand on the head of a pin.
The problem is, of course, your *average * person does not know this. Android doesn't really provide choice, except for choice for the really technical, because choice implies competence.
So my friend who works in the pest control business and is very successful that way would end up, were he blind, going to a store and buying a phone and being stuck without Talkback because that store has Gingerbread on its devices. He would justifiably feel ripped off.
this is the major problem with all fragmented operating systems. Fragmented operating systems will always struggle to meet the needs of average people who don't have a technical background. These are the people in the blindness community whom the android users leave behind.
So why not just be honest and say Android is great for those who know enough to sort the Jelly beans from the Gingerbreads and install some widgets to make it work? When fandom trumps honesty, credibility gets lost. And this is one major reason it's very difficult to move a lot of people onto smartphones.
Exactly. agreed, leo. and what are you talking about regarding IOS and its keyboard. All you have to do is change some settings to enable touch typing, you don't have to switch to a different keyboard. I, who couldnt' ever see myself using a touch screen to type, use an IPhone's touch screen to text all the time, and it's easy. I tried doing that with my friend's android device; that one had an actual keyboard, and I couldnt' believe how frustrated I got because you coldn't easily edit the text. You'd sooner delete the whole text and start over instead of deleting character by character.
I wasn't going to say anything here, but it seems that some people are clinging to the point android seems to bebetter and refuse to listen to anything else, even telling misinformation about IOS. Starfly, if you think you know so much, please research what you say about IOS first, so you actually can make your claims creditable. Yes, the IPhone doesn't default tto touch typing instantly but it's easy to switch to touch within seconds, and for a beginner standard is actually easier as you don't type things you didn't mean too while trying to find what it is you wanted.
I still say Android is for people that don't mind fooling around.
Here is the thing about an iPhone. If you need it setup, you can simply take it to your local Apple store and the staff will set it up just the way you like it before you leave the store.
So, if your carrier doesn't know, and you just aren't in to technical stuff, and could care less, you buy your new phone at the Apple store, and they sit with you, you can even make an appointment, until you understand it.
This service is available for 3 months, and if you want, you can buy more time.
I just think for the main blind community, and iPhone is just simpler to adjust to. Most people don't want to figure out things, they just want it to work.
For these that enjoy Android, that is good, but it simpy doesn't compare to Apple for accessibility.
Until you can walk in to a Google store, and do the same as an Apple store, it won't be there.
I still say choice is good and an Iphone is not for me. Yes I did do my research, I did say I am part of an adaptive tech lab at work so I have to work with both IOS and android.
then why do you overcomplicate the process of turning on touch typing on iOS? this only takes about 10 seconds, maybe a minute if you don't know exactly what you're looking for. And even so, the keyboard is still usable right out of the box, unlike the samsung one.
I get that you like android, I get that you're trying to communicate honestly, but you're so slanted by your own biases you're unable to communicate your points effectively. and lets be honest, anything you don't agree with, or that makes iOS look better, you ignore 9 times out of 10.
In short, please stop claiming to be impartial until you are. I'm not trying to trash you just to be mean. I'm saying what i honestly see in front of me.
You skipped about 90 percent of the features on Brandon's list, and 60 percent of mine.. You can't seriously expect us to take you seriously when you ignore everything you'd rather not talk about.
You also promised me to post how to set up your Android device so that you can answer a call? I want to see your post, not because I'm mean, I want to give it a try from scratch as a blind person, so I can say "yes, he's right, this is really simple."
You'll also help someone.
I'll be using a Galaxy S3 in case you say, well you have to have the correct device. I've got it.
well here goes and I no longer have a Galaxy S3 I have an Iphone 5, one, go to the phone app on your doc bar, to tap menu once, 3. double tap call settings, 4. double tap answering and ending call settings "with in these settings are to check boxes" check them both. They are use home to anser call and use power key to hang up a call. Just as simple as that to answer and end calls. Now call waiting is another beast all together which is why for work related purpose and other reasons I will get into on this board is why I now have an Iphone.
As some of you have shitted on me for pushing android as an alturnitive platform other then IOS, those I want to say your not the reason I switched. Lets see, "can you say lip service from google" "goggles was broke" play music is sorta still broke and on a GS3 no way to answer the other line if someone calls. There is more but I can not think of it. Its the lip service I saw from google IO "make your apps accessible" but we will put out apps that are half tested. Sorry Bs google!, so I left for now, I will get an nexis7 tablit to keep up with google accessibility. It took a lot to push me to apple but lip service from google did just that.
Googles after you even on your new iPhone.
I really think you are a great source of information starfly, and hope you continue to support these using Android, no matter my personal thoughts or choice.
It is really difficult to keep up and you can, if you will, help many not be so frustrated.
No, you can't push something you don't believe is affective for you personaly. Case and point, he switched to an IPhone. All that talk about how android is so much better was just a bunch of talking out of his ass, because he couldn't verify a lot of what he said. He couldnt' admit that yes, in fact, IOS is a lot easier than android to use and to set up. He just proved us correct by getting an IPhone for one reason or another.
I wouldn't comment on that if he hadn't been spouting so many biased half-truths while ignoring the obvious and refusing to admit he was incorrect at least in some ways.
I'm sorry but this article is right on. I'm switching back to IOS from android. I have encountered these same problems...